WAS THERE A BULLET HOLE IN THE LIMO WINDSCREEN ?

[fobrien1]

i have read posts elsewhere that are often repeated that there was no bullet hole in he windscreen , further info added in the posts usually state that only one or two UNRELIABLE witnesses said they saw a hole . the norm usually (if one wants to push the no hole scenario) is that they (the poster ) states that these were just in effect regular joe soaps , in other words the mentality is who are they that we should believe them ? .

well most of the witnesses in this case , be that to jfks killing or officer tippits killing were regular people who just came out on what was a wet and windy morning to see if they could catch sight of jfk .

we have the witnesses that we have . all we can do is look at what they said or did , what statements they gave etc and judge their reliability or credibility based on that , if there is no earthly reason to dispute them then what they said must stand .if there are valid reasons to dispute witnesses (and in some cases there are ) then we must highlight these reasons .

only in this case will you see a whole raft of witnesses being dismissed out of hand as "simply mistaken" a term often used by lone nut advocates .when i look at any witness in order to determine if there is any reason to distrust them i ask my self several questions based a lot on the usual LN criticisms of witnesses .

can we prove they were where they said they were ?
did they try to profit from the crimes ?
did they actively seek fame ?
did they write articles or books ?
did they provably lie at any time ?

i know witnesses that never gave interviews and avoided the lime light , never wrote articles or books , never profited one cent , and never has any proof of any dishonesty on their part been shown . yet these witnesses end up being dismissed by lone nut advocates one way or another , if there is no reason to dismiss them LNs will dig one up . as an example parkland doctors , nurses , people that saw jfks wounds from no more than a few inches away . if they say what LN like to hear THEY ARE DEEMED CREDIBLE , the fact that all their original statements contradict LNs is ignored . if a witness disputes the official version of events but they cant be proven to have lied or be dishonest well the LN mantra has now become THEY WANTED TO INSERT THEM SELVES INTO HISTORY , or the so called conspiracy theorists somehow got to them and converted them from intelligent people into fools lol .


there is an old expression THEY ALL CANT BE WRONG . how many witnesses with no reason to lie and with no proof showing them to have ever been dishonest all saying the same thing do we need before we accept that THEY ALL CANT BE WRONG ? .

we were never told about many of the bethesda witnesses .bethesda is where the autopsy of jfk was performed . the bethesda witnesses were orderd to sign secrecy agreements stopping them from talking about what they saw UNDER THREAT OF COURT MARTIAL . the warren commission never spoke to them with the exception really of the pathologists whom they couldnt really ignore . but later in the 70s the hsca did speak to bethesda witnesses . now firstly ill just quickly lay the tracks . the majority of parkland staff said jfk had a gaping right rear head wound , thats nurses , doctors , neuro surgeons etc . officially they were all proclaimed wrong "SIMPLY MISTAKEN" .

i mean a neuro surgeon cant possibly be expected to be able to determine on his own whether he his looking at a mans forehead , temple or the rear of the mans head lol . from 63 untill 78 all of these witnesses were told they were mistaken , so in those 15 years some decided YES MAYBE I WAS WRONG . this because they were told that no one agreed with or corroborated them . well the hsca took statements from bethesda witnesses that did agree with them and which corroborated them . in 63 the military made sure no one heard what these witnesses had to say , in 64 the warren commission did so by ignoring them , in 78 the hsca made sure no one heard what these witnesses had to say by first SEALING AWAY their testimonies and then lying blatantly in their report stating falsely that ALL the bethesda witnesses contradicted the parkland staff . in fact they told the hsca that jfk had a gaping right rear head wound , they includes two fbi agents .

now im sorry im going a tad around the houses here . im simply trying to highlight how badly witnesses are treated and or ignored or dismissed . im highlighting that the us government and agencies and commissions of the government deceived and lied . the warren commission had a BACK wound that didnt help them (it was to low to fit the trajectory) so they lied and said it was several inches higher up on the right of the neck . the clark panel and hsca had an entry wound low on the back of the head at the hairline just above where the hair on the lowest part of the back of the head meets the neck , as above that trajectory was a problem so they lied and said the wound was some 5 inches higher up on the crown of the head .

we must judge witnesses fairly and honestly , if they be proven to have been dishonest that rightly affects their credibility . likewise we must look at how the various agencies and commissions and the government behaved , deceived and lied and they need to be judged accordingly . that said we wont judge every single employee of the above by the low standards of the agencies they worked for . for example there are fbi agents such as the two mentioned above that told the truth , another agent called odum to name but 3 that were honest and truthful and who refused to be otherwise .

so the limo windscreen . im not going to tell you what to believe , i will let you decide for your selves .

firstly it wasnt just one or two witnesses that said they saw a hole in the windscreen , it was in and around 6 that we know of that are listed and they were not all regular joes , plenty others stood by the limo at parkland that could see if it had a hole or not who we dont know about .

RICHARD DUDMAN : st louis post reporter

"some of us noticed the HOLE in the front window . we were pushed away by secret service agents when we wanted to examine the hole "

CHARLES TAYLOR : fbi report

"small HOLE just left of center"


STEVE (STAVIS) ELLIS : motorcycle cop

"you could have put a pencil through the HOLE "


HAROLD R FREEMAN : police

"i could have touched it ......it was a HOLE .....it was a bullet HOLE , you could tell what it was"


NICK PRENCIPE : police

said he saw a bullet hole

Nick Prencipe, unequivocally described the hole they witnessed as a "bullet hole."


EVALIA GLANGES : 2nd year medical student 1963

"there was a HOLE .........through and through bullet HOLE "



motorcycle officer bj martin who was at jfks left rear with bobby hargis said he saw no hole in the windscreen , all be it he said it years later late 60s and not in testimony in 64 . that said if the commission wanted to ignore hole in the wind screen witnesses i know they probably wouldnt have even mentioned the windscreen to martin , if they didnt ask well then the witness couldnt give an uncomfortable answer , if a witness did try and mention something they didnt want on the record they went off the record or cut the witness off .

so far we have 6 witnesses from police , to reporters , to trainee doctor , fbi etc , ive never seen any reason for any of them to be declared in any way dishonest . we have one cop (bj martin) that later said he saw no hole .


i havent mention the man at the ford plant who said the limo windscreen had a hole in it , and that he made a template from the old screen and made a new one from it .off hand i have no reason to distrust an elderly man who really was dead before his name became widely known . what did he gain by lying ? , if he wanted fame and fortune why not come out years earlier ? say at the shaw trial or when major books had come out ? .

there are photos of the limo in the secret service garage . logs state that the limo was in the garage when the man above said he was making a windscreen . is this true then ? did the old man lie ? , maybe he did but maybe he didnt . as i have said the secret service , fbi , dallas police , various commissions record of honesty and truthfulness is not great . for me its very hard to trust anything they came out with .yes i could list some witnesses that lack credibility because they changed their story or lied , one is marina oswald , so some witnesses can be unreliable , but on the whole in the case of most of the witnesses they seem to have given an honest version of events as they saw it and as they believed it to be true . one can be honest and still be wrong of course . but what is undeniable and what i often tell LNs when they talk about liars is that there are LN witnesses such as marina oswald and various commissions that have provably lied but LNs dont seem to see any problem with them .




above is a photo showing a cracked wind screen , as i said i invite people to research the people i mentioned ,and indeed all that i posted and reach their own conclusions .